The latest episode of the AZ Big Podcast with Michael & Amy has officially dropped. Episode 27 guest Tonya MacBeth from Burch & Cracchiolo talks about common social media mistakes people make during a divorce and the importance of keeping everything positive.
LISTEN TO THE PODCAST: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0BeKjwauxKnvQQMkcjGDJI?si=mbsOKumiSrmqDskSO9s7Ig
Listen to more of the AZ Big Podcast here.
Podcast Transcript:
Michael Gossie
Welcome to the AZ Big Podcast, sponsored by Burch & Cracchiolo. I'm Michael Gossie and I'm joined by my co-host, publisher Amy Lindsey. Today we are joined in the studio by Tonya MacBeth, a family law attorney from Burch and Cracchiolo. Tonya, thank you so much for being here today. We have some really interesting things to talk about today.
Tonya MacBeth
Oh, I'm excited to be here. Thank you for inviting me. This is always a pleasure.
Amy Lindsey
We were just saying, you're our first second time guest here. And it's just because this is such a huge conversation that honestly, we could talk forever about. First, Tonya, can you start by telling us a little bit about how social media has impacted divorce cases in the family law practice?
Tonya MacBeth
Well, it truly has opened the door into people's most intimate moments because we have this tendency to think that only the people we like and love, who like and love us are seeing what we're posting and that's just not true. And even when people put on their Facebook posting or social media posting to narrow who can see it. A lot of times there's a mole, somebody knows somebody and that information gets out even if you don't intend it to.
Michael Gossie
How has technology changed your practice? I can't imagine you had to deal with these things when you started your career in law and it just changes every single day. How do you keep up with the changes and all the changes that technology brings to your practice?
Tonya MacBeth
Well, interestingly the bar has come down and been very specific about this social media. Because they used to have attorneys who would have their staff pose as someone to friend request an opposing party and and get into those private postings and people were very liberal and still continue to be very liberal with accepting friend requests.
Now the bar does prevent that we are ethically required to not fake our identity but some people will friend you anyway. Even I, of course, in my practice, do not encourage my staff or myself to make friend requests, but I know that it occurs, and people are just happy to share.
Michael Gossie
You know, but beyond that we're dealing in the era of Apple share where, you know, you have a family plan, and everybody is kind of like part of the same group and everybody has access to all that information. How do you manage that when you're dealing with a client in a divorce case?
Tonya MacBeth
Well, you bring up a very interesting point because there is a lot of information that you're accurately saying is in that sharing and when it is a pre-decree that means before the divorce happens and everybody's living in the same house and everybody's sharing the same carton of milk.
They forget that they're sharing the same social media and that includes messaging platforms, that includes recordings that include photos. So, even though you may think you're having a private conversation by chat with your new Amor, that person is fully accessible to everyone on the account, and it can have very devastating effects.
Amy Lindsey
So, Tonya, can you go through a list of some social media mistakes and explain how they can impact the case?
Tonya MacBeth
Wow. So, let's start with #1. Shut down your sharing feature so that everybody is out of the family account. We can divvy up the contents of that family account in the divorce, so be very careful about what you are saving and what you are communicating. Family plans are problematic.
Don't post pictures of yourself having a fine, fine time out with the cocktails and perhaps other substances – should not be posted if at all possible. It just is ammunition. And why hand somebody ammunition and very importantly, don't post negativity about your current or former spouse's – soon to be ex. In any platform that your child may have access to, that is horribly, horribly damaging to the child and can be seriously frowned on by the court system as well. So, watch who your friends are, stop posting, do not delete. This is the most important thing for you to remember. If you posted it, you're stuck with it, do not delete. That is a significant violation when you start destroying evidence.
Michael Gossie
Tonya, we have a million questions for you, but before we get to them, I want to say the attorneys at Burch and Cracchiolo have been proving for more than 50 years that a successful business or legal case of any kind starts when you hire the right lawyer. Let them prove it to you. Learn more at bcattorneys.com, that's bcattorneys.com. So, what I'd like to do is I'd like to read a list of mistakes that people make during divorce cases, and maybe you can explain on why it's not a good thing to do it. So first, we touched on this a little bit, but first never post anything to suggest you are not a good parent. What kind? What kind of things are you talking about there?
Tonya MacBeth
Well, not being a good parent is a pretty broad category. So, I would say significant alcohol consumption being someplace you say you are not. If you say that you can't parent because you're sick that day and then you go and post all kinds of social media fun happenings, that's not good. Consistency is important in all of your dealings. Don't post negativity about the other spouse. Don't post throwback pictures that may pull at somebody's heartstrings in an effort to reconnect. That can be seen as hostile. Other things are: make sure that you're posting important, positive things about yourself and not negative things about the other person.
Amy Lindsey
What about posting about a new boyfriend or girlfriend?
Tonya MacBeth
Good point. You know, nobody needs to know. Right. You're if you're gonna have a new girlfriend that if the court doesn't care about whether or not you have a girlfriend, the problem is that you're stirring the pot, and if you want to be done with a resolution that is somewhat amicable or you want to prepare for trial, that's fine. Save yourself some money. And keep the temperature down. Hot temperatures mean high lawyer bills, so keep the temperature down.
Amy Lindsey
Boy, that's a great point.
Michael Gossie
You know one thing I was wondering about how about the things that are not in your control. OK, so estranged spouse gets a new significant other. Estranged spouse does not post anything on their social media, but new significant other does. How do you manage that? I know that you can't, but then how can that harm the person during a divorce case.
Tonya MacBeth
Anything that opens the door into your private life in an uncontrolled manner is a problem. I have a lot of friends on Facebook. Many of them, truthfully, I don't know, and those friends can be friends of friends who are sharing information. So, encourage your significant other to tamp down the influencer behavior. You don't need to show off your new Fendi purse and champagne bellinis on the beach. It's just not the right way to go.
Amy Lindsey
What about the adage never say something on social media. You wouldn't have shared with the world?
Tonya MacBeth
Well, let's face it, people will share just about anything with the world these days.
Amy Lindsey
Add that to the highlight reel.
Tonya MacBeth
So, perhaps we should tamp that down even lower. Perhaps you should share anything on Facebook that you wouldn't share with your grandmother on the way to church.
Amy Lindsey
Oh, throwing the grandmother in. Well, that really limits the conversation.
Tonya MacBeth
Yes, yes you can. You can step back from social media until the case is over, and then once the case is over, if you wanna go and post about your Fendi purse, just expect that it's gonna make your life more difficult and slow – keeping that temperature low is a great way to co-parent. You don't have to poke the bear.
Amy Lindsey
Well, what about bad mouthing the ex?
Tonya MacBeth
Never good, especially as I said before, if the kid can have access to it and let's face it, the kid has access to social media. Posting about the ex always causes hostility, and if you're actively engaged in litigation, it can cause the judge to be upset with you. I've had judges give specific orders that require the parent to cease posting about anything because their behavior was so terrible. And let's face it, memes matter. GIFs, JIFs, whatever the heck we call them. They matter, if you're posting about nothing but domestic violence and you're sharing that with your community. That can send a message to people that you believe that you were domestically violated, harmed in some way and if you can't back that up in court, it can be very, very difficult for your case.
Michael Gossie
I hadn't even. That's a really good point. I hadn't thought about just that the suggestion out there is how harmful that can be.
Amy Lindsey
Yes, yes. You have talked about, you know, obviously staring away from the, showing yourself at a party. But what other type of postings can make you look unstable?
Tonya MacBeth
Other postings that could make you look unstable: talking about wanting to quit your job, talking about behavioral problems that you're having with your child, talking about a fight you had with somebody, whether that's a physical fight or an emotional fight. Posting memes even about mental illness? Depression. Not that that people with depression can't be fantastic parents, but again, you're fueling the fire and what we want to do is keep that temperature down.
Michael Gossie
So, Tonya, how do you educate your clients about how technology can harm their case?
Tonya MacBeth
Well, I need to do a better job, you know, because we can always improve. But I do talk to my clients about being careful about what they're saving to their sharing accounts. I do talk to many of my clients about managing their posting and importantly, I tell them no deleting of social media. Social media, it's evidence destruction of evidence is never good. And we should, as lawyers, we should all be talking about ways to save money in the process. Yeah, it's, it's how I make money but it doesn't need to be unnecessary spending of money and that, that volume and that temperature. Keeping it down is crucial to resolution.
Michael Gossie
How about flipping the script a little bit when your client is the bear that's being poked by their estranged spouse who's posting on social media and getting them riled up?
Tonya MacBeth
I tell my clients sit on your hands. It's absolutely traumatic. It's almost impossible once you get started looking and digging, whether it's the shared account or the facebook posts and trying to find clues to explain this huge traumatic thing that's happening in your life, it's almost impossible to not dig, but really it's a bad path to go on. And if you can, if you can stay away from that dig, you are much better off – and just don't engage.
Amy Lindsey
What's the best piece of advice you could give someone going through a divorce in regards to their social media behaviors?
Tonya MacBeth
Shut it off. Just absolutely stop. You don't have to be an influencer. You can e-mail your grandmother a picture of the child. You can text your best friend a photo of you at some luxurious location but stay off of social media. It will become an issue if you spend any, even just a modest amount of time on it.
Michael Gossie
Tony Macbeth this is fascinating, but we're out of time and thank you so much for being here. This is really amazing stuff. And thank you for listening to the AZ Big Podcast with Michael and Amy. And once again, thank you to our sponsors, Burch and Cracchiolo and to find out more about Tonya, just visit bcattorneys.com. That's bcattorneys.com. Tonya Macbeth. Thank you again.
Amy Lindsey
Thank you, Tonya.
Tonya MacBeth
Thank you.